MESSIANICS 2: Countering Messianic Claims

This is a follow up about the Christian Evangelists who pose as ‘messianic jews’. The original post was called ‘The Missionary Position’.


Firstly,  to address a few queries I have received:


1 - Yes, of course Messianics have of course every right to their own beliefs, rituals and practices.
They just don’t have any right to call it ‘judaism’. 
Because it isn’t.



2 - The Messianic movement is a very specific Christian Evangelical movement.
It does not represent all Christians. Indeed, many Christians have spoken out in condemnation of the Messianics and their lies when they pose as ‘jews’.

Tips For Countering The Lies Messianics Tell About Judaism:

Be warned before you start: Messianics relish the chance to debate Jews!

Their main aim is to convince *you* that yes, you ‘can remain Jewish and worship Jesus’. Now of cousre, this is a lie. But Messianics desperately need to believe it – it is the deceptive premise that underlies their entire ‘religion’.


The majority of Messianic groups get organised training in just *how* to debate genuine Jews. Former members of Messianic congregations often describe how they had to attend seminars and mock discussions in which they learned how to ‘disprove judaism’. 

Chances are, any Messianic that you meet, either online or in the ‘real world’ will know their bible inside out and upside down. Don’t let them distract you with scripture. Keep calm and keep stating the facts.




Here are some of the most common arguments that Messianics  come up with:


Messianic Claim:
“lots of Jews have now found Jesus, and are Jewish Christians”


FACT:

A Jew who becomes a Christian = a Christian.
Nobody can be both Jewish and Christian: it’s a theological contradiction. The two faiths contradict one another on almost everything.

A Jew who adopts Christianity as their religion is an EX Jew.

They are not ‘a jew for jesus’ any more than a Hindu who becomes a Christianity is a ‘hindu for christ’!

Judaism alone gets to define Jewish identity.
Judaism does not permit dual religious identity.
You are a Jew or you are a Christian.
Not both.




Messianic Claim: 

“Lots of Jews are ethnically or racially Jewish, but Christian by faith.’

Note: This is one of the most common arguments used by Messianics.

FACT:

No such thing as being ‘racially’ Jewish. 
Jews are not a ‘race’.

It was Hitler who tried to persuade the world that Jewish people were a separate race but it was a lie then, and it is a lie now.

You can’t change your race, but you can change your faith; many Gentiles convert to Judaism, thus proving it is not a ‘race’.

Nor is Judaism an ‘ethnicity’. How can it be? Which one ‘ethnicity’ unifies all Jews?

An Indian Jew is not the same ethnicity as a Japanese Jew. 
A Japanese Jew is not the same ethnicity as a Black Ethiopian Jew.
A Black Ethiopian Jew is not the same ethnicity as a Swedish caucasian Jew
.
There are Jews of *all* ethnicities!

And what we share is the Jewish religion. A person cannot be both Jewish and Christian.






Messianic Claim: “Messianic ‘jews’ are simply Jews who know the truth about Jesus.”


FACT:

98% of Messianics were *literally* never Jews to start with. 
Not via birth. Not via faith. Not via theology. Not via worship. Not via heritage.

If they aren’t Jewish according to Judaism’s criteria, then they are not Jewish – period.

Christianity does not get to REdefine Jewish identity.
Judaism and only Judaism gets to define Jewish identity. 
Just as Christianity and only Christianity gets to define Christian identity.



Messianic Claim: ‘But Jesus was Jewish – so why don’t Jews worship and accept him?’


FACT: 

Woody Allen is Jewish as well. Does that mean if *he* claimed to be the maschiach we should believe him?

Let’s say Woody Allen did declare that he was the Jewish messiah. Let’s say a small group of Jews believed him and began worshipping him.

Would they still be practising Judaism?

Answer: no, of course not!

Now apply the same logic to Jesus.








Messianic Claim: ‘Religion is a personal thing. I have every right to define myself as Jewish.’


FACT: You don’t have any ‘right’ to hijack the very word ‘jew’ and then lie about what it represents.

Judaism has defined Jewish identity the same way for thousands of years. You don’t get to REdefine ‘judaism’ to suddenly INclude worshipping Jesus.

I can wake up tomorrow and announce I’m a Native American Indian! Does that make it true? 

Do I then have the ‘right’ to MISrepresent what Native American Indians stand for, in public forums?

No, of course not. And nobody has any ‘right’ to do it with Judaism!






Messianic Claim: ‘Jesus was Jewish. Therefore if I worship him, I’m Jewish as well.’



FACT: 

The ‘logic’ here is so flawed it’s almost amusing. Almost.

The facts are crystal clear: if you worship Jesus as ‘christ’ you are a Christian. 

Again, let's use the Woody Allen analogy. Let’s say Woody Allen declared himself the Jewish messiah. If you believed him, would that make you Jewish?

Answer: no, of course not! Jesus is irrelevant to Judaism and always has been. Judaism was a complete and fulfilling faith for thousands of years before Jesus was even a twinkle in Joseph’s eye.






Messianic Claim: ‘The ‘old testament’ refers to Jesus again and again. Jews are just too stubborn to see it.’


FACT:

Given that the OT is a purely Christian text, yes, it probably does point towards Jesus.

The OT was produced by the Church; it is a MIStranslated, REorganised and REinterpreted, Christianised version OF the Jewish Tanakh.

Jews study and read the Tanakh in the original Hebrew. We don’t use any translation. And in the original Hebrew, Jesus is nowhere to be found. If he appears in the OT, it’s because the Church put him there.

* (note: you can find a detailed list of these MIStranslations in the Scripture section of this blog)

“jews for jesus”

Sooner or later someone will ask you about the infamous group ‘jews4jesus’. This is the most aggressive and well known of all the Messianic groups.

Let’s be crystal clear:

‘jews4jesus’ is a Christian group. It was founded by Martin Meyer, an ordained Baptist Minister.

Baptists don’t get to REdefine Judaism. Nor do Baptists get to start a ‘new jewish sect’ that practises Christianity!


Usually, Martin Meyer goes by the name Martin ‘Rosen’. He apparently feels it sounds more ‘jewish’. And at times, he claims that his parents were Orthodox Jews. This may or may not be true. Either way, it’s utterly irrelevant. Even if he started out a Jew, Martin Meyer exercised his right to leave Judaism, and to convert to Christianity.

Among the members of ‘jews4jesus’ there are a few former Jews. The key word here is of course: former.

If a few Jews convert to Islam – does Islam become somehow ‘jewish’?
No, of course not.

If a group of Jews become Hindus – does Hinduism now equal ‘judaism’?
No, obviously not.

Same applies to Christianity. Just because a few ex Jews are now Christians, this does not make Christianity somehow ‘jewish’.

Be aware: members of ‘jews4jesus’ are slick, quick and very practised at answering Jews who are trying to expose their lies.


One of the group’s favourite claims is:
”The original followers of Jesus were ‘messianic jews’. We’re no different’.


FACT:

Only a tiny sect of Jews ever followed Jesus. And the minute they affirmed belief in the ‘resurrection’ and in the notion that Jesus was anything but a normal mortal man, they were effectively *leaving* Judaism.

And the original followers of Jesus never practised Christianity because it did not exist until long after Jesus died. The rituals and beliefs of ‘jews4jesus’ has little in common with those who were part of the sect headed up by Jesus.

You might also like to point out that even if Jews were the first disciples of Jesus, it’s irrelevant. 


Consider: The first Australians were Brits. Does that mean that today’s Aussies get to REdefine British identity, customs and laws?

Messianics 1: The Missionary Position

Something strange is happening in London.



Especially in areas with large Jewish communities. Take 14 year old Rachel, whose family lives in a north London suburb. Last month, she opened the front door to find three Orthodox Jews standing there. Greeting her warmly, they explained they were from the Beth Shalom Synagogue, and were in her area, doing ‘outreach work’. Specifically, they wanted to learn how to make Synagogue ‘more relevant’ for teenagers.

Might Rachel spare them ten minutes of her time…?

Feeling perfectly safe, Rachel invited them in, and made some tea. And for the next forty minutes,she enjoyed a lively conversation with her fellow Jews, about religion, and life in London, and sundry other topics.

And then one of these Orthodox Jews asked Rachel what she thought about Hell. Which was kind of strange – since Rachel knew that in Jewish belief there is NO ‘hell’.

Baffled, she asked ‘Chaim’ to elaborate. Leaning forward with a look of great concern, Chaim asked Rachel if she was worried about her parents, and her six year old sister. After all, surely she didn’t want them to ’spend eternity in hell?’ Chaim then explained this was just what would happen – if Rachel’s family ‘failed to find Jesus’. So Rachel now found herself, bizarrely, with three Orthodox Jews who were preaching Christianity!

Uneasy, she asked Chaim which specific Jewish sect he represented.

‘Messianic’, came the beaming response, a ‘new group in which you can remain Jewish AND still know Jesus.’

And while this did not enlighten Rachel, her mother knew precisely what it meant when she arrived home ten minutes later and threw ‘Chaim’ and his friends out.

You see, these ‘orthodox jews’ were not Jews at all.

They were Christian Missionaries.

Or, as they prefer to be known, ‘messianic jews’.

Confused? That’s what Messianics count upon.



The “messianic jewish” movement has been steadily expanding across North America over the past decade. Despite claiming to be ‘jewish’, it is a purely Christian movement.

It was founded by Evangelical Christians, and it is funded 100% by Evangelical Churches. In short, the Messianic movement is about as ‘jewish’ as a plate of pork chops.

It’s estimated that 95% of Messianics were never Jewish to start with.


To be clear: the Messianic movement is a very specific, Evangelical Christian group. It does not represent all Christians.


Indeed, many Christian movements have publicly condemned Messianics, for the lies they tell.

But don’t dismiss Messianics as some fringe cult. While it may have started that way, Messianics are managing to convert thousands of naive young Jews every year from Judaism to Christianity. The most aggressive and infamous Messianic group is ‘jews4jesus’, but this is just one group among many.

What is it that Messianics want?


Simple. The same thing that Christian Evangelicals have wanted for some 2000 years. Namely, for Jews to accept Jesus as ’son of god’, as ‘messiah’ and as ’saviour’.

And when all their previous efforts to convert Jews failed, American Evangelists rebranded. Now they call their Churches ’synagogues’, they address their preachers as ‘rabbi’, and they themselves are not ‘Christians’ but rather ‘messianic jews’.

Their target audience? Naive young Jews, who fall for the line that Messianics represent a ‘new jewish group which recognises Jesus.’

And right now in the UK, USA, Canada, and Australia, Messianics are doing a hell of a lot more than just knocking on the doors of Jewish homes.

For they are also very busy convincing the entire non Jewish world that they, the Messianics, are in fact the ‘real jews’.


Rachel was lucky. The approach made to her was clumsy and pretty much destined to fail. But numerous young Jewish students away from home for the first time have been lured into embracing Christianity without even realising it.

Take Jonathan. He was away at University, in his first year, studying Politics. When a fellow student, Suzanne, befriended him, he was delighted. She was obviously Jewish – she was wearing a Magen David.

After a few weeks, Suzanne invited Jonathan to go with her to ’synagogue’. Not the one that most Jewish students at that University preferred but another, ‘more friendly’ synagogue. Jonathan said yes, and didn’t give it another thought.

And the following Friday night, he was impressed by the warm reception he got at this ‘temple’. Everyone was smiling. Welcoming. The synagogue looked like every other synagogue he’d ever attended. The ‘Rabbi’ was charismatic, and gave an interesting service. The kiddush was lovely. Jonathan went home feeling great.

And so when, a few weeks later, Suzanne and some of the other members of the temple suggested to Jonathan that he take a look at a ‘wonderful Hebrew scripture’, he shrugged and figured, ‘Where’s the harm?’.

Suzanne explained that the scripture was called the ‘Brit Chadasha’.

She gave Jonathan some photocopied pages; an ‘English translation’. He glanced through them. They were fairly interesting. Prettily written. Jonathan had never been very into religion – sure, he was Jewish, but he wasn’t ‘observant’.

But Suzanne was keen to discuss the scriptures and Jonathan soon found himself enjoying their chats. When the name ‘Yeshua’ came up, Jonathan didn’t make the connection. He liked this new form of “messianic judaism”.


The problem? ‘Brit Chadasha’ is Hebrew for New Testament.

Jonathan had been studying the Christian bible without even knowing it!


All choice had been taken away from him, as he’d been convinced that he was simply following an authentic Jewish text, as part of an authentic Jewish group.

In reality, Jonathan was not now a ‘messianic jew’. He was now on his way out of Judaism – because for a Jew to affirm belief in Jesus or any other human as ‘divine’ is blasphemy.

Now of course, people switch faiths.

Christians become Jews. Jews become Christians. But they do it consciously.

Jonathan was troubled once he discovered that he’d been so thoroughly hoodwinked. And when he confronted his Messianic ‘friends’, their response was to turn on him and issue dire warnings about his ‘fate’ if he now ‘rejected jesus’.

Messianics are also busy in cyberspace. In debate forums that discuss and debate religion, they are busy representing ‘judaism’ and convincing millions of well meaning non Jews that ‘real jews DO embrace Jesus!’

Fortunately in some forums there are genuine Jews who are countering this deception. Even then, they come under attack from the Messianics who accuse the Jews of ‘discrimination’.


In other words: Jews are being told they have to accept a Christian Evangelical group as part OF Judaism – or be guilty of ‘discrimination’!

Messianics are also busy hijacking Jewish festivals. At Pesach, hundreds of thousands of Messianics celebrate ‘the real passover’, in which Jesus is the ’sacrificial lamb’. They have also inserted Jesus into other sacred Jewish rituals and festivals, in a way that is offensive in the extreme.

In short: Messianics are slowly but surely taking everything that Judaism holds as sacred, and Christianising it.


And in doing so, they are twisting both Judaism and Christianity.


In America, Jews are actively addressing this new threat from Christian missionaries, and have organised some great resources, primarily in the form of ‘Jews For Judaism’, which aims to counter, specifically but not exclusively, ‘jews4jesus’.


But here in the UK, while Messianics are becoming more proactive, the Jewish community remains silent. Recently, ‘jews4jesus’ yet again took to the streets and started bombarding the public with leaflets and books in central London.

Yet not a single Jewish newspaper so much as mentioned this.

And let’s all be crystal clear: these evangelists have one basic goal: they wish to eradicate us.

Oh sure – they’ll do it with smiles, and they’ll claim to ‘love’ us, but make no mistake.
The Messianic movement aims to convert as many Jews as humanly possible, to its own peculiar, confused brand of evangelical Christianity.

Only now, Messianics are that much cleverer. And if they have to steal our very identity in order to succeed, so be it.

Perhaps the most worrying comment comes from a 30-something Jewish man who, having battled Messianics in ‘real life’ and internet forums for several years now, concludes:

‘Within another ten years, nobody out there will even understand that these Messianics are not Jewish. For some bizarre reason, the world thinks that this group within Evangelical Christianity gets to REdefine Judaism, and just accepts whatever Messianics claim. Never mind that we genuine Jews are trying desperately to counter these evangelical lies. Nobody gives a damn.’